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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Could someone explain how being able to carry concealed weapons would have prevented the Mall shooting?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
I am sure everyone on this board is a responsible person and has high respect for the lives of others. These personal attributes are also related to socio-economic status. We are all (most of us) tractor owning, land owning folk, that makes us different from the folks eaking out a living in the city slums. Some of these folks value life differently to us. Arm these folk and you have a recepie for carnage. Pity law enforcement having to deal with neighborhoods where every individual is packing and no one has respect for the value of life. There would be numerous instances where everyday disagreements would be settled with guns. Put yourself in their shoes and decide if you want everyone in the neighbourhood carrying guns. Imagine the violence, it's a parents worst nightmare. Speak to the mothers in these neighbourhoods, they all say the same thing: Please help us get rid of the guns, they are killing our children. It's not the people on this forum I worry about, its everyone else. More guns = more violence, but is it OK if its not my neighbourhood?
The US tried this social experiment back in the 1800's, the so called western era. What most folk don't realize is that it was a relativley short lived period (about 25 years). It was short lived because society could not tolerate the loss of life associated with everyday individuals blasting one another away over all manner of disputes. The rule of law and legal justice as we know it developed.
Also beware of retribution - its a very poor substitute for justice. Sooner or later those seeking retribution wind up as victims of retribution themselves - ask the Hatfields and McCoys (sp?).
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Is it possible that if the PI (refered to in Ncrunch32's post) had a partner in a different vehicle across the road and he had a gun, he would have had reasonable grounds to fire at Ncrunch's wife (assumption that his partner was in mortal jeapoardy)? Ncrunch looses his best friend over a incident that started off with their daughter coming in crying.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
The situation in former Yogoslavia is a poor analogy, we are not in a situation of civil war. I seriously doubt that if everyone was armed with a rifle that the outcome would have been any different - that war was largly motivated by ethnic cleansing (a subject most Americans have little personal experience with).
In general its my observation that more guns = more violence, the question society has to ask itself is what level of violence are we prepared to accept. The question I ask myself is: Is the quality of my life reduced somewhat by the feeling that I need to carry a weapon with me at all times.
On a practical note, Ohio passed a concealed carry law in 2004. In the law was a provision that any premisis could put up signage that prohibited concealed weapons on their private property. Concealed weapons are not permitted on most government property (schools, govt. buildings etc). Overnight most private institutions restricted concealed weapons on their properties (the daycare where my kids go, the company where I work and most shopping malls for example). So what do you folk that carry weapons do in these instances, do you carry and then get to the door and see the sign and go back to the parking lot to drop off your gun. I guess I an wondering how you make it work for you. It seems to me that these signs are everywhere and it would make it very inconvieniant to effectively carry a gun? How do you do it?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
I guess one response would be to quit shopping at a mall that banned weapons, is that how most other folks would respond?
In general I find it really difficult to carry out those sort of principaled decisions on a practical everyday basis. For me its kind of analagous to shopping at Wal-Mart i dont really like the fact that they put Mom and Pop places out of business, but I really hate discovering I got screwed on an item that was half the price over the street, bottom line is I still shop at Wal-Mart. Getting on with life becomes very difficult. What do the rest of you do?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
You assume that my interpertation of that era comes from the movies - not so. We do however agree that a problem IS that the motion picture industry has done an amazingly poor job of depicting what life was like back then.
Please dont assume I am anti hunting, I phesant hunt regularly (Missouri, Iowa and Nebraska) and enjoy doing so.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Yes, AV8R, I too am enjoying the civil debate. Thankfully there is debate (and not just mud slinging). One of the large problems our modern society faces is that of "Group think" we need to solicit opinions that are different to our own, else we learn nothing.
My position on concealed weapons arises from watching news reports on murders (generally on TV - sometimes 2 or 3 a night). I keep thinking that there has to be a better way, and I am unsure that carrying guns is part of that solution. There are a few of you on this forum that were in law enforcement what are your experiences in this area if any?
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
Lets all sign up to reduce world population, perhaps we could each donate 1 out of 10 family members for extermination. I guess its OK to get rid of millions if the extermnation is NIMBY (Not in my back yard). Why does that seem so familiar, oh yes the Holocast - 6 million Jews, we will never miss them.
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Shooting at Mall in Kingston
JDCMan, your comments are well heard. I too have become despondent about our two parties. Neither represents my views, I have affinities and problems with and for both. I have this theory: I call it "The big boiling pot of jam theory". I shall explain. There used to be a mix of ingredients that made a republican political platform, and a different set for a democrat platform. Now they just throw whatever goes into a big pot boil it all up and call it a campaign. In the the end republican jam tastes the same as democrat jam. Each party will tell you "my jam has strawberries in it", or "mine has grapes" but in the end its just jam, and if I wanted grapes I would buy grapes not jam. Its no longer about values, its about money and the whole lot of them lie like their pants are on fire. What kind of system are we in when we have organized groups whose sole purpopse is fact checking the campaigns. It makes me sick, I have never been so disillusioned with our political process.
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